Alright, I won't make a change to the main article, but hear me out. Year One of the Revolutionary Calender is A.D. 1790, which makes Year 228 A.D. 2017; 55 years after A.T.B. 2017 following the dating scheme of Eoywn driving out Gaius Julius Caeser from Britannia. So either the Revolutionary Year is a continuity error or the old explanation for the ATB dating system has been Retconned (to be indistingusable from Anno Domini no less). So which do you think is more likely? 70.140.19.131 23:32, August 9, 2012 (UTC) Scherzo
But here is the thing: they don't say that its 1790 "AD", but just "1790". Considering the context of this show, where the Britannian calendar has pretty much been dominant (at least from the perspective of the viewers), it is heavily implied that they mean 1790 "ATB" here. The whole issue of the AD calendar system doesn't matter, therefore. Also, if there are some continuity errors compared to the original history in our world, such as the years of the different calendar systems not properly matching, that is most likely the fault of the producers who didn't think ahead when they did this. In any case, as long as the producers claim that the current year is "Revolutionary Year 228" in Akito the Exiled, then that is the fact of the matter, as they are "God" in terms of the Code Geass and its related details; any further debate is just theorizing and criticizing the errors they might make. So while I admit that your argument isn't totally basely, it isn't enough to change the given information on this wiki; only verified "facts" belong here, such as what is directly stated by the makers of the anime. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 01:58, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
I wouldn't have changed the article if I had known that was the date given on the site. I hadn't seen the source material before I made the edit and I apologize. Any further discussion is just an intellectual argument and not attempting to change it.
First off though, I just don't buy that 1789 is anything but a reference to the irl French Revolution, and if you were to hand wave it by saying "Well it just happens 55 years earlier in this timeline", then you have to explain stuff like the 80 year gap between the French Revolution and the founding of Britannia, as well as how Napoleon could've participated in it due to not being born yet as well as happening before CG Timeline's "Washington's Rebellion."
Honestly, I actually like the depth they're giving the EU with Akito and I understand in the grandscheme of things this is nitpicky. But I'm just kinda disappointed that they most likely screwed up when creating this alternate Calender, which is something the French Revolutionaries themselves actually did. 70.140.19.131 03:38, August 10, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo
I know, I'm also disappointed that they made this kind of mistake. It won't detract from my enjoyment of Akito, of course, but it would have been nice if they had gotten all their facts straight before deciding these details. Still, we've only gotten the bare basics of the details from the Akito website, so perhaps we'll learn more from the actual ova itself that will make up for this, if not correct it. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 11:54, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
I'd also like to point out a few other retcons or at least what appear to be retcons. Britain's capital is moved to North America before the revolution can "reach the cliffs of Dover", so the whole thing about the "Humiliation of Edinburough" where Elizabeth IX is forced to abdicate the throne seems to have been retconned. Also, if I'm reading it right, Napoleon doesn't die at Waterloo, but is instead overthrown by the revolutionaries before he can consolidate power, potentially before he can declare the French Empire.
A person on a forum I go to also noticed that Reila possibly mentions 'Floreal' while recording her diary entry, a month in the Revolutionary Calender, though that isn't enough to go off without a proper translation. I'd give them mad props if they alluded to a "Goddess of Reason" being the religion of the EU. 70.140.19.131 20:44, August 10, 2012 (UTC) Scherzo
Yes, I also noticed those two inconsistencies with the currently accepted history in CG. But, since the story about the "Humiliation of Edinburough" and Napoleon's death at Waterloo were only given in animated shorts that were only semi-serious and were made before the decision to make new series like Akito the Exiled, they likely decided that it would be fine if they disregarded the information provided in these shorts in favour of a new history that fits better with the plot they intended for Akito. As such, I would not read too much into these retcons, unless the producers themselves bring it up in some article.
And it would be interesting if they did make an allusion to the "Goddess of Reason", I admit, since it would show that they did put SOME thought into the little details. But as you said, until a translation comes out, it's hard to tell for the time being. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 21:00, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
True, Sunrise probably treats CG like they do Gundam; the only 'canon' is what is shown in animation, whereas Light Novels, Manga, Video Games and Promotional Material are at best 'Semi-Canon' only if not contradicted by animated material. Did the explanation of the ATB dating system also come from an Omake? I never knew the source of all that material and assumed it had come from some Appendix in a light novel or something. Is the only information gleaned from the show itself about Britannia's history (in relation to our timeline I mean) the fact that the Tudor Dynasty never ended?
I'm a bit of an Alt History junkie, So I'm pretty excited at the prospect of Akito dealing more explicitly with some of Geass's more Alt History elements, like the French Revolution succeeding and spreading to the rest of Europe. I'm just wondering that as more concrete information about Akito's setting develops, do you think we should go back and edit the information to reflect that?70.140.19.131 21:27, August 10, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo
I'm not sure. I know that most of the details of CG history come from the animated shorts I mentioned, but I believe there were also other info revealed in the light novels and in certain articles. Since I only started watching Code Geass a few years after its original airing, I never bothered to keep track of where most of the already revealed material had come from. I believe there were brief mentions of CG history from background conversation in Ashford classes from season 1, but you'd have to go back and watch to confifm.
Yeah, I'm also a big fan of alternate history, which was part of what made me like CG in the first place. And if new information is revealed during the course of Akito, I believe it should be added to the wiki, but the previously provided info shouldn't be deleted out of hand. For instance, the name of the EU was changed from Euro Universe to European Union when it was discovered that the producers had changed the name from what had been given to us in old released materials, but we still kept a little trivia bit about the name change. At the very least, the old information should still be kept at least as a side-note trivia, I believe. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 01:58, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah I understand, most of the backstory for Code Geass I picked up from either here or TvTropes. Just was wondering if there was anywhere in particular the ATB dating system being based from 55 BC came from. I'm pretty sure the lecture in class was about the Tudor Dynasty remaining in power which is a pretty weird PoD since it never really amounts to much but whatever.
Anyways it's not like we can say anything with too much certainty until there's a more concrete information. I hope me going through and changing Euro Universe to European Union through about two dozen articles wasn't too rash, thought I could help a bit. Kinda hoping someone licenses it to, hopefully Viz because they'd be in the best position to get members of the original cast back (the ones that appear anyways); either way there might be translated promotional material released with that too. 70.140.19.131 02:54, August 11, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo
Apparently, when skimming through reviews, saw one saying that the Geopolitical Situation isn't really elaborated on, so I dunno if there'll be much to update. However, in case there is new information, and this might not be the best forum for bringing it up, but there probably should be a 'tier' system to canon. 70.140.19.131 23:07, August 11, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo.\
Well, it's still only the first episode of Akito; it's possible they'll give more background details in later episodes. As for a tier system, I agree with the rough idea, but someone is going to have to figue out how to oraganize it, most likely one of the wiki administrators. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 23:29, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
If you guys are willing to hear other opinions...there are certainly some retcons involved but I don't think the basic idea for "The Humiliation of Edinburgh" is entirely incompatible with the description taken from the Akito the Exiled website.
The biggest difference is whether or not the French actually landed on British soil before the move, which doesn't seem to be the case according to the Akito website, but since the original story tells us that Queen Elizabeth was captured by her own citizens (not the French) and had to escape to America, even the lack of invading forces isn't vital to the historical outcome. It's still a move prompted by the rising threat of revolution, both local and external.
As for the part about Napoleon's death changing...the original version came from the "history lessons" printed on the DVD booklets, where Lelouch and Suzaku talked more or less cynically about history, though mostly focused on the Britannian perspective.
In the case of Napoleon's poisoning by Elizabeth III, Lelouch and Suzaku literally say that it is only a theory and don't treat it as a proven fact. Lelouch even says that Nunnally read a "highly inaccurate story that depicted her [Elizabeth III] as a tragic queen" and "the theory that she assassinated Napoleon" is used to make an in-joke about Nunnally possibly poisoning them.
It's kind of odd that such a story would be taken literally without that content, since it's basically a rumor.
Oh, about another thing I just remembered...the kind fellow on Youtube who reviewed the first OVA episode was referring to the lack of specifics for new viewers about the Code Geass world being divided into three superpowers (E.U., Britannia, Chinese Federation) so he considered the lack of geopolitical information as a source of confusion for them, but didn't really say anything about the political or historical content that was provided about the E.U. alone. That's an important distinction. Jroa (talk) 01:04, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
Well I always thought the British Revolution, the fall of Elizabeth III I mean, was primarily conducted by British Citizens with some French Support following their victory in some Trafalgar analog. It's what's known as a Revolutionary Wave , much like what has happened in the Arab Spring in the Middle East; French Revolutionaries didn't invade Britain to impose Anti-Monarchism on them, the British Subjects themselves rose up. But the new material pretty explicitly says that the British throne left the British Isles before the Revolution hit critical mass; so the narrative of a 'Humiliation of Edinburough', where Republican Forces the Monarchy to abdicate before they're able to escape England, no longer really fits in. I'm not trying to be an Ass, just saying that they're mutually exclusive.
That Napoleon stuf is a bit illuminating; seems kinda like fluff that could be easily retconned. It could be that he actually did fight a Battle of Waterloo between his Loyalist Faction and Revolutionaries, which he lost, but that's just guessing at this point. In anycase Napoleon being put to death like Robespierre by the revolutionaries definitely makes more sense than the Napoleonic Wars happening more or less as they did IRL just without Britain.
And thanks for filling me about what he meant. That seems pretty silly; that's like complaining about War in the Pocket and 08th MS Team not filling in the backstory of the One Year War shown in MSG. It's sorta expected that you know about the franchise somewhat coming into it if you're gonna notice the wider context. 70.140.19.131 02:59, August 12, 2012 (UTC) Scherzo
Also noticed something from a review of Akito I read; he kept refering to the Britannian Invasion of Japan as taking place in 2010 CE instead of ATB 2010. I wonder if that is just a mistake on his part or if that's the nomenculture they use, cause if it is it may mean the whole ATB system has been retconned. 70.140.19.131 09:28, August 12, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo
Let's just say I'm not going to make a big deal over that either. Until they decide to publish a revised time line when the Akito disc extras and booklets or other materials finally come out, there's not enough evidence to argue over what is or isn't possible.
About that last part...I don't think they changed it. I went to look for a point of comparison and the OVA preview narrator uses the same words referring to a.t.b. 2010 that C.C. uses during her own narration from episode 1 of the original Code Geass. Jroa (talk) 18:14, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
I'm just a stickler for these kinds of details. I'm not arguing for a change right now, but once more information is available I would appreciate it being sorted out.70.140.19.131 19:30, August 12, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo
I don't really want to belabor this point too much, but having watched the first episode of the Akito OVA, I think it's fair to say that, this series at least, operates under the assumption that ATB is the same as AD. I don't want to change everything but I think there should be a note somewhere about that. 209.184.165.20 22:13, September 30, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo
Oh, and an addendum to my last post, the EU does in fact use the Revolutionary months from the French Calendar. Layla was promoted on the 5th of Prairial. 209.184.165.20 22:50, September 30, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo
Japanese Internment
Recently somebody added that the Japanese internment in Europe is like the American WWII internment of Japanese Americans. This is nonsense. America interned the Japanese because the US was at war with Japan at the time, and therefore weary of Japanese espionage - which, in spite of the moral implications of the internment, died down considerably afterward. Rather, the EU's internment would have been more like if America interned the hordes of European refugees coming in following the blitzkrieg; it would have been a completely dickish (for lack of better adjective) act that would have punished the victims of an aggressor, and otherwise served no practical purpose. But then, that was the whole obvious intent here; if there's one thing the Code Geass writers waste no oppurtunity on, it's establishing the Japanese as downtrodden victims of bigger, badder groups and nations (an irony I doubt anyone in Southeast Asia has missed - which is probably why Episode Two reversed the trend and established the refugees as assholes themselves), even if it makes no sense whatsoever.Wing Zero Alpha (talk) 07:23, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
- Thats not even exclusive to Code Geass writers. If you look at things, its not uncommon for anime to often portray Japan as victims to other nations.BahamutX978 (talk) 20:42, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
Europia United is an incomplete name
I have noticed there was a modification in the title of this page and all associated ones to "Europia United" but for the sake of complete accuracy it should be further changed to "United Republic of Europia" instead.
First off, the best source for an official English spelling would be the official English subtitles. All of the Japanese BD discs releases come with proper English subtitles and they use "United Republic of Europia" as the correct name. The same thing goes for the French text that appears in monitors during the the OVA.
See here: http://imgur.com/a/PNUcQ http://imgur.com/a/IS0KH
There is one image in the Japanese homepage that uses "Europia United" but that is just an incomplete shorthand, not the proper naming for the faction. It isn't used like that in the actual show.
Also, the Japanese writing is incorrect too, since it reflects the old "Euro Universe" terminology. The current Japanese name, including both katakana and kanji, is ユーロピア共和国連合 which can still be officially abbreviated as E.U. and means "United Republic of Europia" too. See here. Jroa (talk)
The name Europia United is also used in plain english in the manga volumes of Oz the Reflection.BahamutX978 (talk) 01:08, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for your attention. I think we need to establish a hierarchy of relevance between sources in order to resolve this, since they are not all created equal.
- Is an English (or, frankly, possibly Engrish) line within the untranslated volumes of Oz the Reflection the most important source here? That is a manga series which generally doesn't take place in Europe (much less Europia proper), aside from O2 briefly going to R2-era Spain that's already under Britannian occupation. I think Akito the Exiled is more authoritative by default.
- Especially when Sunrise itself has already paid professional translators to fully subtitle Akito the Exiled into understandable English. Not fansubbers. Anyone who buys the physical disks of Akito the Exiled will find "United Republic of Europia" is being used as the complete name for this faction. Which also matches the French text shown in the footage as well as the actual meaning of the Japanese term.
- I think that makes "Europia United" a possible alternative term at best, with a couple of secondary uses, but not the primary one that should be formally preferred in a wiki. If you notice, the Akito KMF webpage also has images which translate the Holy Empire of Britannia as simply "Britannia" (look at the Lancelot at the bottom) but that's obviously not the full in-universe name. Just a shorthand. Jroa (talk) 02:11, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
Balofo (talk) 02:43, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
Here we go, from volume 3, 
BahamutX978 (talk) 03:02, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
- I wasn't doubting you had seen the term used in the manga, but thanks for the image. Even so, I would request that you give more thought to the issue. Oz the Reflection does not have any official translation into English (sadly). The Japanese also have a trend of regularly using slightly weird or even inconsistent English terms when left to their own affairs ("European Union" can still be found in Product Works 2 and on the back of the Japanese language BD booklets, so it's not a deprecated label in truth but I am not advocating for its recovery here, since it has no in-universe usage either). Akito the Exiled is the only work they have officially submitted to English speakers for producing a translation and even Funimation is unlikely to use Oz the Reflection as a point of reference for their own Akito dub/sub release (although that's sitting in limbo at the moment).Jroa (talk) 04:57, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
The Akito anime trumps the OZ manga in canonicity and its official subtitles are good, so Europia United is just short for United Republic of Europia. The formal name is the official one. Balofo (talk) 03:14, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
Someone else tried to change the page to European Union again earlier. I don't think that's the right name either, nor the correct method, but I am disappointed by the current state of affairs. We are still keeping an incorrect term like "Europia United" as the title in a way that is both internally inconsistent and contradicts official materials with higher authority (starting with the animated footage itself). In any case, Funimation has announced that they will release Akito in early 2017, though the specific date is still unknown. I will buy that official release and collect all the information to present the case for a reasonable modification once again. Jroa (talk) 19:36, November 15, 2016 (UTC)
Europia Revisited
The Akito the Exiled English dub that was just officially released by Funimation Entertainment is using the term "United Republic of Europia" in its script.
Therefore, we should change the term "Europia United" into "United Republic of Europia" for the sake of consistency with the official English terminology.
See (or rather, hear) the first few seconds of this link, and also the on-screen subs that pop up at the 25th minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7aMEhlm98Y Jroa (talk) 15:58, June 28, 2017 (UTC)
Based on the fact that Manfredi and some other characters refer to the EU as "Europia United" in the English dub of Akito the Exiled while others refer to it as the "United Republic of Europia" I think that both are official names for the EU, with "Europia United" being the common shorthand title of the nation and "United Republic of Europia" being the formal full-length title of the nation similar to how in real life Japan is formally known as the State of Japan but is generally rendered as just Japan. That being said this is just my opinion and I don't have any proof aside from the fact that both "Europia United" and "United Republic of Europia" are mentioned in the anime which would seem to suggest that they are both considered to be official names for the EU and the consistent use of the abbreviation "EU" which isn't really an abbreviation that would work for the "United Republic of Europia"--173.30.163.170 03:39, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, but let's keep in mind who is using the terms. The omniscient narrator and the subtitles, even in the dub, consistently use ´"United Republic of Europia" here. This includes whenever any military locations and other places are introduced. In other words, that's the formal title of the country which would clearly appear in an Encyclopedia or, in our case, in a Wiki/Wikia.
- Thus, if I follow your reasoning, then that would necessarily mean "United Republic of Europia" should be properly indicated first in this article as the main official name and preferably in other parts of the site, wherever the formal name is being used for other factions and nations.
- Therefore, that should still be changed for the sake of consistency, clarification and formality.
- That said, I can also see why "Europia United" would need to be mentioned too, but as the more informal shorthand, along with the term "E.U." as well. Right now, we have almost the opposite situation, with the informal term being incorrectly favored.
- Like when people say "United States of America" that's the actual legal name of the country, but obviously some will call it "the United States", "the U.S." or just "America" in practice.
- Britannia's own case is also interesting to consider. The Wikia article on that says this:
- The Holy Britannian Empire (神聖ブリタニア帝国 Shinsei Buritania Teikoku, also refered to as the Britannian Empire or just Britannia)
- This is why I think the article itself should be changed in order to reflect a similar situation. For example
- The United Republic of Europia (Japanese kanji, also referred to as Europia United or just Europia).
- Once that's done, I think that solution would be rational enough because the article would include both terms and explain the terminology in its very first paragraph. Jroa (talk) 07:22, July 8, 2017 (UTC)