Talk:United Republic of Europia

Alright, I won't make a change to the main article, but hear me out. Year One of the Revolutionary Calender is A.D. 1790, which makes Year 228 A.D. 2017; 55 years after A.T.B. 2017 following the dating scheme of Eoywn driving out Gaius Julius Caeser from Britannia. So either the Revolutionary Year is a continuity error or the old explanation for the ATB dating system has been Retconned (to be indistingusable from Anno Domini no less). So which do you think is more likely? 70.140.19.131 23:32, August 9, 2012 (UTC) Scherzo

But here is the thing: they don't say that its 1790 "AD", but just "1790". Considering the context of this show, where the Britannian calendar has pretty much been dominant (at least from the perspective of the viewers), it is heavily implied that they mean 1790 "ATB" here. The whole issue of the AD calendar system doesn't matter, therefore. Also, if there are some continuity errors compared to the original history in our world, such as the years of the different calendar systems not properly matching, that is most likely the fault of the producers who didn't think ahead when they did this. In any case, as long as the producers claim that the current year is "Revolutionary Year 228" in Akito the Exiled, then that is the fact of the matter, as they are "God" in terms of the Code Geass and its related details; any further debate is just theorizing and criticizing the errors they might make. So while I admit that your argument isn't totally basely, it isn't enough to change the given information on this wiki; only verified "facts" belong here, such as what is directly stated by the makers of the anime. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 01:58, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't have changed the article if I had known that was the date given on the site. I hadn't seen the source material before I made the edit and I apologize. Any further discussion is just an intellectual argument and not attempting to change it.

First off though, I just don't buy that 1789 is anything but a reference to the irl French Revolution, and if you were to hand wave it by saying "Well it just happens 55 years earlier in this timeline", then you have to explain stuff like the 80 year gap between the French Revolution and the founding of Britannia, as well as how Napoleon could've participated in it due to not being born yet as well as happening before CG Timeline's "Washington's Rebellion."

Honestly, I actually like the depth they're giving the EU with Akito and I understand in the grandscheme of things this is nitpicky. But I'm just kinda disappointed that they most likely screwed up when creating this alternate Calender, which is something the French Revolutionaries themselves actually did. 70.140.19.131 03:38, August 10, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo

I know, I'm also disappointed that they made this kind of mistake. It won't detract from my enjoyment of Akito, of course, but it would have been nice if they had gotten all their facts straight before deciding these details. Still, we've only gotten the bare basics of the details from the Akito website, so perhaps we'll learn more from the actual ova itself that will make up for this, if not correct it. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 11:54, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out a few other retcons or at least what appear to be retcons. Britain's capital is moved to North America before the revolution can "reach the cliffs of Dover", so the whole thing about the "Humiliation of Edinburough" where Elizabeth IX is forced to abdicate the throne seems to have been retconned. Also, if I'm reading it right, Napoleon doesn't die at Waterloo, but is instead overthrown by the revolutionaries before he can consolidate power, potentially before he can declare the French Empire.

A person on a forum I go to also noticed that Reila possibly mentions 'Floreal' while recording her diary entry, a month in the Revolutionary Calender, though that isn't enough to go off without a proper translation. I'd give them mad props if they alluded to a "Goddess of Reason" being the religion of the EU. 70.140.19.131 20:44, August 10, 2012 (UTC) Scherzo

Yes, I also noticed those two inconsistencies with the currently accepted history in CG. But, since the story about the "Humiliation of Edinburough" and Napoleon's death at Waterloo were only given in animated shorts that were only semi-serious and were made before the decision to make new series like Akito the Exiled, they likely decided that it would be fine if they disregarded the information provided in these shorts in favour of a new history that fits better with the plot they intended for Akito. As such, I would not read too much into these retcons, unless the producers themselves bring it up in some article.

And it would be interesting if they did make an allusion to the "Goddess of Reason", I admit, since it would show that they did put SOME thought into the little details. But as you said, until a translation comes out, it's hard to tell for the time being. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 21:00, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

True, Sunrise probably treats CG like they do Gundam; the only 'canon' is what is shown in animation, whereas Light Novels, Manga, Video Games and Promotional Material are at best 'Semi-Canon' only if not contradicted by animated material. Did the explanation of the ATB dating system also come from an Omake? I never knew the source of all that material and assumed it had come from some Appendix in a light novel or something. Is the only information gleaned from the show itself about Britannia's history (in relation to our timeline I mean) the fact that the Tudor Dynasty never ended?

I'm a bit of an Alt History junkie, So I'm pretty excited at the prospect of Akito dealing more explicitly with some of Geass's more Alt History elements, like the French Revolution succeeding and spreading to the rest of Europe. I'm just wondering that as more concrete information about Akito's setting develops, do you think we should go back and edit the information to reflect that?70.140.19.131 21:27, August 10, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo

I'm not sure. I know that most of the details of CG history come from the animated shorts I mentioned, but I believe there were also other info revealed in the light novels and in certain articles. Since I only started watching Code Geass a few years after its original airing, I never bothered to keep track of where most of the already revealed material had come from. I believe there were brief mentions of CG history from background conversation in Ashford classes from season 1, but you'd have to go back and watch to confifm.

Yeah, I'm also a big fan of alternate history, which was part of what made me like CG in the first place. And if new information is revealed during the course of Akito, I believe it should be added to the wiki, but the previously provided info shouldn't be deleted out of hand. For instance, the name of the EU was changed from Euro Universe to European Union when it was discovered that the producers had changed the name from what had been given to us in old released materials, but we still kept a little trivia bit about the name change. At the very least, the old information should still be kept at least as a side-note trivia, I believe. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 01:58, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I understand, most of the backstory for Code Geass I picked up from either here or TvTropes. Just was wondering if there was anywhere in particular the ATB dating system being based from 55 BC came from. I'm pretty sure the lecture in class was about the Tudor Dynasty remaining in power which is a pretty weird PoD since it never really amounts to much but whatever.

Anyways it's not like we can say anything with too much certainty until there's a more concrete information. I hope me going through and changing Euro Universe to European Union through about two dozen articles wasn't too rash, thought I could help a bit. Kinda hoping someone licenses it to, hopefully Viz because they'd be in the best position to get members of the original cast back (the ones that appear anyways); either way there might be translated promotional material released with that too. 70.140.19.131 02:54, August 11, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo

Apparently, when skimming through reviews, saw one saying that the Geopolitical Situation isn't really elaborated on, so I dunno if there'll be much to update. However, in case there is new information, and this might not be the best forum for bringing it up, but there probably should be a 'tier' system to canon. 70.140.19.131 23:07, August 11, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo.\

Well, it's still only the first episode of Akito; it's possible they'll give more background details in later episodes. As for a tier system, I agree with the rough idea, but someone is going to have to figue out how to oraganize it, most likely one of the wiki administrators. Eternal Dreamer (talk) 23:29, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

If you guys are willing to hear other opinions...there are certainly some retcons involved but I don't think the basic idea for "The Humiliation of Edinburgh" is entirely incompatible with the description taken from the Akito the Exiled website.

The biggest difference is whether or not the French actually landed on British soil before the move, which doesn't seem to be the case according to the Akito website, but since the original story tells us that Queen Elizabeth was captured by her own citizens (not the French) and had to escape to America, even the lack of invading forces isn't vital to the historical outcome. It's still a move prompted by the rising threat of revolution, both local and external.

As for the part about Napoleon's death changing...the original version came from the "history lessons" printed on the DVD booklets, where Lelouch and Suzaku talked more or less cynically about history, though mostly focused on the Britannian perspective.

In the case of Napoleon's poisoning by Elizabeth III, Lelouch and Suzaku literally say that it is only a theory and don't treat it as a proven fact. Lelouch even says that Nunnally read a "highly inaccurate story that depicted her [Elizabeth III] as a tragic queen" and "the theory that she assassinated Napoleon" is used to make an in-joke about Nunnally possibly poisoning them.

It's kind of odd that such a story would be taken literally without that content, since it's basically a rumor.

Oh, about another thing I just remembered...the kind fellow on Youtube who reviewed the first OVA episode was referring to the lack of specifics for new viewers about the Code Geass world being divided into three superpowers (E.U., Britannia, Chinese Federation) so he considered the lack of geopolitical information as a source of confusion for them, but didn't really say anything about the political or historical content that was provided about the E.U. alone. That's an important distinction. Jroa (talk) 01:04, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well I always thought the British Revolution, the fall of Elizabeth III I mean, was primarily conducted by British Citizens with some French Support following their victory in some Trafalgar analog. It's what's known as a Revolutionary Wave, much like what has happened in the Arab Spring in the Middle East; French Revolutionaries didn't invade Britain to impose Anti-Monarchism on them, the British Subjects themselves rose up. But the new material pretty explicitly says that the British throne left the British Isles before the Revolution hit critical mass; so the narrative of a 'Humiliation of Edinburough', where Republican Forces the Monarchy to abdicate before they're able to escape England, no longer really fits in. I'm not trying to be an Ass, just saying that they're mutually exclusive.

That Napoleon stuf is a bit illuminating; seems kinda like fluff that could be easily retconned. It could be that he actually did fight a Battle of Waterloo between his Loyalist Faction and Revolutionaries, which he lost, but that's just guessing at this point. In anycase Napoleon being put to death like Robespierre by the revolutionaries definitely makes more sense than the Napoleonic Wars happening more or less as they did IRL just without Britain.

And thanks for filling me about what he meant. That seems pretty silly; that's like complaining about War in the Pocket and 08th MS Team not filling in the backstory of the One Year War shown in MSG. It's sorta expected that you know about the franchise somewhat coming into it if you're gonna notice the wider context. 70.140.19.131 02:59, August 12, 2012 (UTC) Scherzo

Also noticed something from a review of Akito I read; he kept refering to the Britannian Invasion of Japan as taking place in 2010 CE instead of ATB 2010. I wonder if that is just a mistake on his part or if that's the nomenculture they use, cause if it is it may mean the whole ATB system has been retconned. 70.140.19.131 09:28, August 12, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo

Let's just say I'm not going to make a big deal over that either. Until they decide to publish a revised time line when the Akito disc extras and booklets or other materials finally come out, there's not enough evidence to argue over what is or isn't possible.

About that last part...I don't think they changed it. I went to look for a point of comparison and the OVA preview narrator uses the same words referring to a.t.b. 2010 that C.C. uses during her own narration from episode 1 of the original Code Geass. Jroa (talk) 18:14, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm just a stickler for these kinds of details. I'm not arguing for a change right now, but once more information is available I would appreciate it being sorted out.70.140.19.131 19:30, August 12, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo

I don't really want to belabor this point too much, but having watched the first episode of the Akito OVA, I think it's fair to say that, this series at least, operates under the assumption that ATB is the same as AD. I don't want to change everything but I think there should be a note somewhere about that. 209.184.165.20 22:13, September 30, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo

Oh, and an addendum to my last post, the EU does in fact use the Revolutionary months from the French Calendar. Layla was promoted on the 5th of Prairial. 209.184.165.20 22:50, September 30, 2012 (UTC)Scherzo